Welcome to the latest PRmoment podcast.

On the show today we’re talking to the three co-founders of Fight or Flight: Joe Walton, Charlie Meredith-Hardy and David Woodward. It’s Fight or Flights 5th anniversary this year, so we’re going to chat about how this independent has gone from a start-up with zero income five years ago, to a business that now has a fee income of over £8m globally, with revenues in the US of approximately £3.7m.

Clients include Oracle, Motorway and Expedia.

Before we start, two pieces of good news at PRmoment this week. The first is that the programme for PR Masterclass: AI in PR is now complete. The PR Masterclass series are hybrid events so you can attend either in person or virtually. The event is on July 3rd and themes include:

Check out the microsite PRMasterclasses.com for all the details including the speaker line-up.

The other vital bit of information is that The Creative Moment Awards are now open for entries. Do check out all the categories for 2025 at  creativemomentawards.co.

The early bird entry deadline is Friday 16th May.

Here’s a flavour of what Joe, David and Charlie discussed with PRmoment founder Ben Smith.

Joe, David and Charlie reflect on how the UK B2B PR market is at the moment.

Why the UK B2B market has had a challenging last 12 months.

What size of budget do Fight or Flight’s target currently, in the UK and US?

Why did Fight or Flight launch in the US so early in its life cycle?

The reasons for a B2B tech PR firm to launch in the US are obvious but how have Fight or Flight managed to get £3.7m revenues in about 3 years? Why has Fight or Flight succeeded where others have failed?

“We made some very big senior hires (in the US) out of the gate.”

“We hired the right people, we went in hard, we went in senior and it's paid off.”

In the early years the positioning of Fight or Flight centred around the opportunity for creativity in B2B communications. David reflects on whether that has worked, or whether the growth of the business quickly outgrew the positioning?

“If you look at the points of difference in the agency world. Quite few of them are not defendable.”

“A little bit less than 5% of the B2B market is doing truly brave creative work. The work that takes you out of your comfort zone and builds fame.”

For B2B PR firms, is one of the challenges the relative low seniority of some in-house B2B communicators?

“We are seeing quite a few consumer PR folks coming into B2B.”

Fight or Flight have grown quickly? Everyone wants to grow quickly but it’s a difficult thing to do. Joe, David and Charlie tell us how they did it.

“People often ask us, ‘do you wish you did it earlier?’ My answer is: that we did it at exactly the right time.”

What were the challenges of such fast growth for a PR firm?

Are Joe, David and Charlie optimistic or pessimistic about the state of UK tech at the moment?

Where is Fight or Flight likely to launch next?

“People tend to forget the danger of doing nothing.”

As “three, white, straight founders from the home counties” how did Joe, David and Charlie approach the need for Fight or Flight to have strong DE&I credentials?

The implications of AI for the media, PR firms and in-house teams are significant. Where is Fight or Flight on the opportunity: threat spectrum?

How do Joe, David and Charlie see AI changing Fight or Flight’s client offer?

What is Fight or Flight’s ambition for the next five years; it’s going to be tough keeping up this rate of growth, isn't it?

“We’re aiming to double in size over the next five years.”

As one of the fastest growing UK independents, with a bridgehead in the US, Fight or Flight must have had some enquiries from potential purchasers. Have Joe, David and Charlie been tempted?

“We are very much not in sell mode. We’ve had tentative approaches from various big agencies and private equity and buy and build deals.”

“The three of us know that we’re going to look back on our careers when we’re retired and know this is the best bit. So why would you be in any rush!”

“The holding groups have a lot of challenges. To get those companies fit for purpose again, right size, in the right areas is really difficult.”

“It’s a lot easier to win against the big agencies now."